Curse

schaapie · Jan 04, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

/signed i would really like too get my survivor title on ym character i only play at 1 charecter. When i started i did not know anything of gw so i did not know of the title either. Now i can't get it anymore

.

TaCktiX · Jan 05, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

That statement is directly based on Gaile's statements regarding the HoM. More specifically, the one summarized here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gaile/Frog_Talk/20071226

If it can be added to the HoM, there will be SOMETHING in Guild Wars 2 that will recognize you as a former Guild Wars 1 player who got an achievement in Guild Wars 1 directly corresponding to that SOMETHING. That is direct inference from all documentation given about Guild Wars 2. I use benefit loosely, for they also say there will be no "leg-ups" given to former GW1 people, merely prestige things.

Quote:

Actually, it would be much more time consuming and problematic to code a new NPC and the requisite parameters you and others have suggested for the change than to simply add a new title. Therefore, if something was going to be changed, then adding a new title would be the quickest and easiest route for Anet.

Ever heard of the term "template" in reference to coding? Creating a new NPC is very easy, considering all you need to do is add a dialog to show to the player (hey, you there, want a second shot at Survivor?), a little bit of conditional code for what the NPC does (gimme 25k and I'll let you restart Survivor), and then his location in an outpost. Live update and he's there. Restarting the track is at a specific player-made point that can be linked to data coding immediately.

And with a new title, ArenaNet has to specifically track EN MASSE every single character's experience since last death, even retroactively. In comparison, that's a data and space nightmare, if they even have the retroactive data to implement that anyway. From a coding perspective, a new title makes zero sense.

And yes, I am fluent in programming, including SQL.

Jenn · Jan 05, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

/signed.

It doesn't even have to apply to people who started their characters before titles were out. I'm sure many people (like myself) started their first character, was completely noob at the game for quite some time, and then started to grasp the bigger parts to the game, at which point one would realize they missed out on certain titles. Nonetheless, at this point, I didn't want to delete a character that had all my hard work poured into it. My first character is 22 months old, but when I started the game, I didin't know what the Survivor, LDoA, or even what titles were!

For people saying to "start over" - you are simply missing out on the larger scope of things. You are not realizing that people perhaps change their objectives during their game play. People who have been playing this game for two years probably don't look at it the same way as they did on their first day of playing. Now, for them, titles would be a nice thing to have, maybe it's something they want, whereas they initially may have not given a hoot about titles.

There are no cans of worms to be opened up here. People already buy their titles, farm them easily, etc. There are running services of all sorts - if you have a big enough storage (or bank account), anyone can get titles. If you are afraid that "Legendary Survivor" will be as big a trend as the little asian monks with that hairstyle and face, fissure of woe armor, and chaos gloves, who cares? Does it affect you? No. Does it cheapen the title? Not more than it already has been, or any other title. The way in which the title will be achieved will not change, but more people will have it because they finally have a decent shot at it.

StelardActek · Jan 05, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

I don't know if I mentioned this, but I'd like to tell you the sad story of my friend.

He's played for a while, but recently stopped playing because of LS. After having restarted a few times, once after having made the first rank. He doesn't want to play on without getting the title, but doesn't want to play the starter areas again. So he stopped playing.

Now, I would theorise that without the challenge of survivor he might have lost interest anyway, but with the ability to reset the title instead of remake, he might actually make it through the story, instead of having to do Istan or Shing Jea for the nth+1 time.

liquid fever · Jan 05, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

/signed

i have 20 max titles on my favourite character and would like survivor too, loosing 20 titles and remaking character is a bit much for that...

Hanok Odbrook · Jan 05, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

That statement is directly based on Gaile's statements regarding the HoM. More specifically, the one summarized here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gaile/Frog_Talk/20071226

If it can be added to the HoM, there will be SOMETHING in Guild Wars 2 that will recognize you as a former Guild Wars 1 player who got an achievement in Guild Wars 1 directly corresponding to that SOMETHING. That is direct inference from all documentation given about Guild Wars 2. I use benefit loosely, for they also say there will be no "leg-ups" given to former GW1 people, merely prestige things.

Exactly - the same kind of benefits that one gets from birthday mini-pets and the festival hats. From current look, a total of 26 titles can be added to the Hall, however, the most any single player in this game will be able to add is 25, considering LDoA and Survivor are mutually exclusive. Practically speaking, the most that probably will be added will be 24 or less considering that Survivor and any PvP title are also mutually exclusive unless you happen to be the luckiest PvE primary player in the game, never having died whilst playing PvP.

So, all in all, the "benefit" that Survivor alone will grant is miniscule at best. I doubt that any single title will grant an individual benefit, more than likely, you will see the benefit come from the total number of titles in the Hall and not any one in particular - just as the Honor monument simply shows progression in KoaBD, and has no reflection on the individual titles that contribute to that track. Therefore using the Hall as an excuse to change the mechanics of Survivor is no more reasoning than anyone demanding mini-pets (which can also be added to the Hall) for deleted characters or festival hats for events that they missed. I would absolutely favor a change to Survivor if it had some true in game benefit or was needed to access playable content. However, it is merely one of many status symbols with no true benefit, therefore is not required and should not be changed solely for that reason.

Sure, it would have been nice to get the first Halloween, Wintersday, and Tengu hats for my characters, but unfortunately real life lag (work) and bad PUGs (family commitments) prevented me from being there on that single day to get them. I also had over a dozen characters that have been deleted over time, some mules and others I played through the game to varying points. Had I known mini-pets would have been in the equation, I still would have those characters on my account today just for the sole reason of trying to complete the collections without having to spend money I don't really have buying them. So using current reasoning, shouldn't I and others be allowed some method of acquiring those items since we lost out solely through factors out of our control?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Ever heard of the term "template" in reference to coding? snip, snip, snip

Granted. I know enough about programming (however rudimentary at best) to have some knowledge of certain things, and obviously, plunking down an NPC in the three port cities et al. will need less resources up front than duping the Survivor title and re-naming it. However, I envisioned the new title as being just that - a one shot deal same as Survivor coupled with a brief announcement from Anet saying "here it is, starting now." I wouldn't forsee it as being retroactive, but simply beginning from the time the title went "live." But that's beside the point. Part of my reasoning goes beyond just the coding and resources, as there is much more to factor into a decision such as this, such as creative vision and PR.

What if anything does the NPC say to a current LS (PS ensure that no bugs or player mistake somehow removes or resets their title track upon interaction)
What about the exclusivity with LDoA. A mighty big choice here for players - go for one or the other? Change Survivor, and that mutual exclusiveness goes away - what are the PR ramifications for that, and what would be the ramifications for coding the NPC to disallow any LDoA from going for Survivor?
How will changing Survivor impact the overall vision of what brought that title into existence (reward for Prophecies players who survived w/o any other incentive to do so, among others), and its current impact on player perception within the game?
If Survivor will be changed to allow an infinite number of mulligans until a player finally succeeds, solely to allow them to gain another status symbol, what then the impact on allowing other players to obtain other status symbols that they to desire (refer to comments above)?
If we eliminate a player's need to make a choice in the game (play however you wish, but risk loosing Survivor), what then about the other areas in the game that force you to loose things like quests or storyline access simply based on the choice of profession or storyline track that you take? Should these then be eliminated as well so players no longer have to make any choices at all?

There's a lot more to factor into a decision like this that goes beyond the simple coding, hence the bottom line is, though it may practically use more resources, it still may end up being the easier and simpler solution to add a new title track than to change the current one. However, it may even be simpler to combine the two options. Insert said NPC, but instead of resetting the Survivor track, the NPC simply offers players the opportunity to go for the new one, thus avoiding the need to track all characters in existence, but simply track the ones who voluntarily add the new title to their character.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild

Shadowmoon · Jan 05, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Exactly - the same kind of benefits that one gets from birthday mini-pets and the festival hats. From current look, a total of 26 titles can be added to the Hall, however, the most any single player in this game will be able to add is 25, considering LDoA and Survivor are mutually exclusive. Practically speaking, the most that probably will be added will be 24 or less considering that Survivor and any PvP title are also mutually exclusive unless you happen to be the luckiest PvE primary player in the game, never having died whilst playing PvP.

Do u even play the game honestly because your ignorance is shining brighter than the r5 KOABD light in the HoM. You clearly don't know how the HoM works, clearly don't know how pvp titles work, and clearly don't know how many pve titles there are. Stop trolling this tHread when you don't know anything
ALL PVP TITLES ARE ACCOUNT BASED
ACCOUNT TITLES DON'T NEED TO BE MAXED TO BE PUT IN HoM
THERE ARE 36 MAXABLE TITLES FOR THE KOABD TITLE TRACK
THERE IS BENEFIT FOR HAVING SURVIVOR BECAUSE TO GET R6 KOABD YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO A MASSIVE GRIND TITLES (4+ MIL GOLD AND/OR 300+ HOURS DEDICATED TITLE GRINDING) TO REPLACE SURVIVOR
now please leave this thread alone, i hate people who agrue just attention and no other reason.

TaCktiX · Jan 05, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

If we eliminate a player's need to make a choice in the game (play however you wish, but risk loosing Survivor), what then about the other areas in the game that force you to loose things like quests or storyline access simply based on the choice of profession or storyline track that you take? Should these then be eliminated as well so players no longer have to make any choices at all?

Obviously you don't play this game thoroughly enough. All those "choices" you make? The only set-in-stone-cannot-be-changed choices in the game are your primary profession, your decision to go Post-Searing (negating LDOA), and dying at any point before Legendary Survivor. Decided to take Margrid instead of the Master of Whispers? Hey, once you beat Nightfall you can do a freebie quest and get the Master of Whispers. Wanted a Necromancer secondary on your Elementalist, but later wanted to do the Monk quests? Change your secondary and those Monk quests are available. Heck, if you suddenly wanted to go Kurzick instead of Luxon, your Luxon faction that you've already donated doesn't disappear.

Guild Wars is limitless in the amount of choice you have. But one thing is triumphs in is choices you can change. You're allowed to change your mind in 99.9% of the game, and you won't be penalized for it, it just might take a little longer to make the change.

Survivor and LDoA are not that way, as I have argued again, and again, and again. You don't have the choice to go back WITH YOUR EXISTENT CHARACTER and try again. Sure, you can stick that character's weapons and gold on your Storage Chest, delete, re-roll, and pick them back up. But that's not logical compared to the rest of the game, and will remain illogical. Spock would be most displeased.

I sure hope you're arguing out of ignorance or devil's advocate Hanok, for the entire time you've put up "zomg, I like one of the few things in the game I can't go back and fix" arguments, more and more people have /signed, agreeing with exactly what everyone else has been saying. If you want to play the game as if it isn't limitless, that's your prerogative. The rest of Guild Wars disagrees with you.

Hanok Odbrook · Jan 05, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

Do u even play the game honestly because your ignorance is shining brighter than the r5 KOABD light in the HoM. You clearly don't know how the HoM works, clearly don't know how pvp titles work, and clearly don't know how many pve titles there are. Stop trolling this tHread when you don't know anything
ALL PVP TITLES ARE ACCOUNT BASED
ACCOUNT TITLES DON'T NEED TO BE MAXED TO BE PUT IN HoM
THERE ARE 36 MAXABLE TITLES FOR THE KOABD TITLE TRACK
THERE IS BENEFIT FOR HAVING SURVIVOR BECAUSE TO GET R6 KOABD YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO A MASSIVE GRIND TITLES (4+ MIL GOLD AND/OR 300+ HOURS DEDICATED TITLE GRINDING) TO REPLACE SURVIVOR
now please leave this thread alone, i hate people who agrue just attention and no other reason.

LOL, best laugh I have had all day. Please quote me where I said PvP titles aren't account based, or that all titles need to be maxed to be placed in the HoM, or that there are less than 36 titles available.

As of right now, not every title qualifies for the Hall, and of those only 8 do not require maxing. Any change to Survivor would make it just as "grindy" as any of the other titles you are talking about. Perhaps you haven't been playing games long enough to know what the definition of grind is. As it is right now, Survivor is the only non-mapping title that does not require a player to grind one ounce of it if they do not desire to do so in order to max out the title.(though the map titles may need some grind to clear out mission areas). Changing it to allow players to mulligan it would then make it a grind title as you would have to grind out repeatable quests or elite/challenge missions to be most effective in accumulating the necessary XP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Obviously you don't play this game thoroughly enough. All those "choices" you make? The only set-in-stone-cannot-be-changed choices in the game are your primary profession, your decision to go Post-Searing (negating LDOA), and dying at any point before Legendary Survivor. Decided to take Margrid instead of the Master of Whispers? Hey, once you beat Nightfall you can do a freebie quest and get the Master of Whispers. Wanted a Necromancer secondary on your Elementalist, but later wanted to do the Monk quests? Change your secondary and those Monk quests are available. Heck, if you suddenly wanted to go Kurzick instead of Luxon, your Luxon faction that you've already donated doesn't disappear.

Let's not forget:
Choosing your secondary profession in Pre-Searing prior to completing all the secondary quests will not allow you to complete those quests - ever.
Your secondary profession does indeed eliminate many other quests in the game, that even changing your secondary will not allow you to complete. (unless an unmarked update has changed that since I last checked).
Playing a character from one continent does not allow you to partake of any of the earlier quests of either of the other two continents, nor allow Canthans and Elonians to visit Pre-Searing (since characters can time travel any way, why should we be denied being able to return to Pre any time we want?)
You can't make an Elonian Ritualist or Assassin, even though those professions exist on the continent, as does the ability to acquire their skills.
Choosing one hero over another eliminates your ability to take the immediate follow-up quests offered by the other hero.
If you complete Hunted! or Nahpui Quarter prior to the Doppleganger mission, you can't ever get that 50,000 XP for Augury Rock.
You cannot freely explore all of Cantha nor Elona without completing missions in some form or another, which is even more restrictive than simply needing two missions in Prophecies to access all areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Guild Wars is limitless in the amount of choice you have. But one thing is triumphs in is choices you can change. You're allowed to change your mind in 99.9% of the game, and you won't be penalized for it, it just might take a little longer to make the change.

That's still a debatable subject and a matter of opinion, as many threads in any forum will point out. Please help me out here: will taking a purely defensive character allow you to win the Magni tournament? Thus far, I haven't been able to do it without changing my defensive characters into offensive ones - oops, there's a build limitation here. GW offers many limitless options, but when you look at the whole picture, there are many places where only a finite limit of choices will be effective. To be limitless in the true sense of the word, you would be able to complete 100% of the entire game and expansion without ever having to change anything you are doing. However, the nature of the game itself must impose certain limitations in order to be challenging, interesting, and successful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Survivor and LDoA are not that way, as I have argued again, and again, and again. You don't have the choice to go back WITH YOUR EXISTENT CHARACTER and try again. Sure, you can stick that character's weapons and gold on your Storage Chest, delete, re-roll, and pick them back up. But that's not logical compared to the rest of the game, and will remain illogical. Spock would be most displeased.

I think Spock would also say "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations." Just because 34 titles all act in a similar manner does not mean that the other two should as well. I never said re-rolling should be considered an option. I certainly don't. I consider the time invested in every one of my current characters very precious to me, and would never delete any of them for any reason. However, as I did say in one previous post, we must all realize that certain decisions on how to play the game will have and should have certain consequences. The way I play the game will not allow me to get, let alone max out certain titles; just as the way you chose to play the game does not allow you to get the Survivor title. There is nothing illogical about having or expecting any action to have a reaction associated with it, and having those actions and reactions be different from person to person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

I sure hope you're arguing out of ignorance or devil's advocate Hanok, for the entire time you've put up "zomg, I like one of the few things in the game I can't go back and fix" arguments, more and more people have /signed, agreeing with exactly what everyone else has been saying. If you want to play the game as if it isn't limitless, that's your prerogative. The rest of Guild Wars disagrees with you.

So, all 3,999,999 other players told you that did they? Survivor and LDoA should remain as they are because they are the two most unique and interesting titles in the game - that is simply my opinion, and unless laws have changed around here, I am still entitled to it. I have every right to be against a change for these titles because they are different from the rest, just as much as you using that very same difference to argue for a change. If memory serves, the Rolling Stones might have an issue with that - something like you can't always get what you want, or something to that effect. I believe I also heard another axiom that goes "if everyone was able to have everything, what would be the point in having anything?"

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild

Shadowmoon · Jan 06, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

i'll break down ur own quote exactly then

"Exactly - the same kind of benefits that one gets from birthday mini-pets and the festival hats. From current look, a total of 26 titles can be added to the Hall (here you sayign there less than 36 maxiable pve titles, and that pvp can't be put in unless they are maxed, its simple counting) , however, the most any single player in this game will be able to add is 25, considering LDoA and Survivor are mutually exclusive. Practically speaking, the most that probably will be added will be 24 or less considering that Survivor and any PvP title are also mutually exclusive (Survivor is a character specific title, stating that they are mutually excluvise implies that pvp titles are character base also) unless you happen to be the luckiest PvE primary player in the game, never having died whilst playing PvP."

Either one you don't know what your info, or you can't count. Let me help you, there are 41 statues due to titles that can be put in the "Honor" monument, two are mutually exclusive like i thas been said all over these forums. This is far from the 25 you stated so either go back to kindergarden and learn to count big numbers or make sure what you say is true.
PS. there are also 9 statues in the "Honor" monument that come from non title related activities.

Midgar · Jan 06, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

That's still a debatable subject and a matter of opinion, as many threads in any forum will point out. Please help me out here: will taking a purely defensive character allow you to win the Magni tournament? Thus far, I haven't been able to do it without changing my defensive characters into offensive ones - oops, there's a build limitation here. GW offers many limitless options, but when you look at the whole picture, there are many places where only a finite limit of choices will be effective. To be limitless in the true sense of the word, you would be able to complete 100% of the entire game and expansion without ever having to change anything you are doing. However, the nature of the game itself must impose certain limitations in order to be challenging, interesting, and successful.

That's the most ridiculous statement in this thread so far. Would you also expect Domain of Anguish to be completeable with empty skill bars and candy cane weapons? Of course there are gonna be restrictions now and then if you want to complete the whole game, even in Guild Wars, but the important point is that none of the restrictions, except LS and LDoA, cause permanent effects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

How will changing Survivor impact the overall vision of what brought that title into existence (reward for Prophecies players who survived w/o any other incentive to do so, among others), and its current impact on player perception within the game?
If Survivor will be changed to allow an infinite number of mulligans until a player finally succeeds, solely to allow them to gain another status symbol, what then the impact on allowing other players to obtain other status symbols that they to desire (refer to comments above)?

Please keep your assumptions for yourself or post an official source saying that LS was a reward for the old characters who were able to "survive". I find it *extremly* unlikely that it ever was meant as a reward for the old players. You mention yourself that there probably exist four million different ways of playing the game so why would Anet want to reward a tiny group of players that have chosen one specific way of playing the game? Even if they did, why would they want to reward those that put surviving above anything else? If this was the case though, you can't deny the fact that the were meant for cowards and antisocial people instead of "survivors".
Imagine you're playing Sanctum Cay mission, reach the last part where you have to defend the Vizier and 1-2 party member suddenly leaves. Then what? Would you just leave as well and let the 3-4 other people down or would you at last try to defend the Vizier although there there would be a risk of dying? I really doubt Anet would reward leavers who ruin other peoples gameplay as you still would have a decent chance of completing the mission...

Also please keep in mind that not everyone has the same opinion like you and think of the Survivor title as a status symbol. I just want it because it is a challenge and a part of the game

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

However, as I did say in one previous post, we must all realize that certain decisions on how to play the game will have and should have certain consequences. The way I play the game will not allow me to get, let alone max out certain titles; just as the way you chose to play the game does not allow you to get the Survivor title.

Titles are not necesseraily meant to be related in the way one play. Keep in mind that that a some titles, such as Lucky/Unlucky and Sweet Tooth, were meant for nothing but gold sink when they first were introduced. I seriously doubt that anyone who maxed any of these titles simply did it because it "happened to be their way of playing". Besides, if your first character was a monk would it then mean you never should be allowed to change "your way of playing" and make a warrior instead? Certainly not. A lot of people constantly change their way of playing, so just because the "way of putting survival above anything else" didn't happen to be ones first way of playing, would that mean you never should be allowed to go for the Survivor title?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

As of right now, not every title qualifies for the Hall, and of those only 8 do not require maxing. Any change to Survivor would make it just as "grindy" as any of the other titles you are talking about. Perhaps you haven't been playing games long enough to know what the definition of grind is. As it is right now, Survivor is the only non-mapping title that does not require a player to grind one ounce of it if they do not desire to do so in order to max out the title.(though the map titles may need some grind to clear out mission areas). Changing it to allow players to mulligan it would then make it a grind title as you would have to grind out repeatable quests or elite/challenge missions to be most effective in accumulating the necessary XP.

If old characters were given a chance to get the title it would not necessarily become a grind title.
If my old mesmer was given a single chance, then I indeed wouldn't want to risk losing it and just find a lagproof way of grinding the title.
If Anet on the other hand decided to make a new NPC that gave you infinitely many chances then I would instead just do my best to keep my mesmer alive while enjoying FoW/UW-runs with my friends. It would only require about 10 runs and i can't see how this can be related to grinding if I'm just enjoying the game and spending the time with my friends.

Hanok Odbrook · Jan 06, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

i'll break down ur own quote exactly then

"Exactly - the same kind of benefits that one gets from birthday mini-pets and the festival hats. From current look, a total of 26 titles can be added to the Hall (here you sayign there less than 36 maxiable pve titles, and that pvp can't be put in unless they are maxed, its simple counting) , however, the most any single player in this game will be able to add is 25, considering LDoA and Survivor are mutually exclusive. Practically speaking, the most that probably will be added will be 24 or less considering that Survivor and any PvP title are also mutually exclusive (Survivor is a character specific title, stating that they are mutually excluvise implies that pvp titles are character base also) unless you happen to be the luckiest PvE primary player in the game, never having died whilst playing PvP."

I still don't see the part where I say PvP can't be added to the hall unless it is maxed. The 26 is merely a typo on my part - I missed it during the preview of my post, I wholeheartly apologize for the error. Indeed out of the 42 total titles that are in the game, currently 36 of them can be added to the Hall, and only 30 are needed to max KoaBD. In terms of Suvivor being exclusive with PvP titles, I was speaking on a single PvE character, not everyone playing the game has quite as many active characters as I or others may have. I have met many in game who still only have one character for all three campaigns and the expansion. I once again apologize for the misunderstanding, in the future I will try to make myself perfectly clear in the simplest language that you can understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

so either go back to kindergarden and learn to count big numbers or make sure what you say is true.

As soon as you learn how to spell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midgar

That's the most ridiculous statement in this thread so far. Would you also expect Domain of Anguish to be completeable with empty skill bars and candy cane weapons? Of course there are gonna be restrictions now and then if you want to complete the whole game, even in Guild Wars, but the important point is that none of the restrictions, except LS and LDoA, cause permanent effects.

I take it you didn't see the list of a few of the other permanent effects in my previous post regarding quests, and the like?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midgar

Please keep your assumptions for yourself or post an official source saying that LS was a reward for the old characters who were able to "survive". I find it *extremly* unlikely that it ever was meant as a reward for the old players. You mention yourself that there probably exist four million different ways of playing the game so why would Anet want to reward a tiny group of players that have chosen one specific way of playing the game?

Then LDoA is not a reward for the Perma-Pre players who death leveled their characters to Level 20 in Pre-Searing? What the heck is it then? In regards to Survivor being a reward for players who took characters from Level 1 to VL 100, I think the very parameters of the title speak for itself. Other than that, this issue has been a hot button topic literally since the day the titles went live. I cannot be positive - age has begun to addle my memory, but I do believe that there was a mention way back when from an Anet rep long ago that this was one of the reasons for the title. I could be mistaken, so take it for what it's worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midgar

Even if they did, why would they want to reward those that put surviving above anything else? If this was the case though, you can't deny the fact that the were meant for cowards and antisocial people instead of "survivors".

Well, why not reward players that play to survive (within reason), the same as they rewarded Perma-Pre characters or AFK farmers with other titles. In the case of cowards, how would changing the title change any of that? Players will still log out to avoid having to restart all over again, and what not, so changing the title will not change how some (but not all) players treat it. Again, I myself have never played that way, which is why I have but one character remaining who has a shot at maxing the title, even counting the Canthans and Elonians I created after the title had come into being. Perhaps, if everyone feels that this title is more of a cowards title than anything else, it should simply be removed from the game and save us all some argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midgar

Also please keep in mind that not everyone has the same opinion like you and think of the Survivor title as a status symbol. I just want it because it is a challenge and a part of the game

So it's the challenge of accumulating 1,337,500 XP without dying that is appealing? Then why not just do so, and take the satisfaction that comes from being able to do it? What does the title have to do with the challenge itself of accumulating that amount of XP? By the way, I do not think of it as a status symbol, I really don't care about the title at all - for me, it was indeed the challenge of playing the game without dying that appealed to me - long before the title came into being, I didn't need the incentive of a status symbol to attempt to accumulate any amount of XP whilst avoiding death. I did it, and still do it because I find it the most fun and exciting way to play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midgar

A lot of people constantly change their way of playing, so just because the "way of putting survival above anything else" didn't happen to be ones first way of playing, would that mean you never should be allowed to go for the Survivor title?

Certainly not. You still are absolutely able to get the title, you just have to create a new character and go for it. You don't even have to delete any old characters to do so - unless you have maxed out the number of buyable character slots allowed for your account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midgar

If old characters were given a chance to get the title it would not necessarily become a grind title.
If my old mesmer was given a single chance, then I indeed wouldn't want to risk losing it and just find a lagproof way of grinding the title.
If Anet on the other hand decided to make a new NPC that gave you infinitely many chances then I would instead just do my best to keep my mesmer alive while enjoying FoW/UW-runs with my friends. It would only require about 10 runs and i can't see how this can be related to grinding if I'm just enjoying the game and spending the time with my friends.

That is pretty much the text book definition of grind - repeating the same areas and/or activities over and over again to achieve the same results. The fact that you enjoy the experience does not mean it is not grinding, the same that the gold farmer may enjoy what he/she is doing does not mean farming is not grinding. With the title currently as it is, you never need repeat any part of the game or area in order to max it out (quest/mission requirements aside). Presuming that you are a level 20 character who has completed all three campaigns, that leaves only a handful of areas and quests that must be continually repeated until the amount of XP is gathered. Running FoW/UW 10 times to achieve Survivor is grinding.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild

StelardActek · Jan 06, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

What if anything does the NPC say to a current LS [...] What about the exclusivity with LDoA.

I'm fairly sure I mentioned that the NPC I'm suggesting would not offer resetting of the title track to those who already have LS or LDoA.

TaCktiX · Jan 06, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Certainly not. You still are absolutely able to get the title, you just have to create a new character and go for it. You don't even have to delete any old characters to do so - unless you have maxed out the number of buyable character slots allowed for your account.

Emphasis added.

The point here is that the current way the game is set, it is in your best interest to put as many titles on ONE character as possible. KoaBD is not an account title, sad to say (I'd be nearly Rank 6, what with my 15 Protector titles around all characters). THe point that you are completely missing while supporting it in full is the fact that of the 31 titles you have available (counting LDoA and LS as one since they are mutually exclusive), you have 27 "just play the game" titles (Protectors, GW:EN allegiance, Skill Hunter, Lightbringer, etc.), and 4 total and complete grind titles. Open 10,000 chests (Treasure Hunter), ID 10,000 gold items (Wisdom), be drunk for 10,000 minutes (Drunkard), or get sugar high 10,000 times (Sweet Tooth). I don't know about you, but I'd prefer not to do all 4 just because Legendary Survivor was cut off to me ages ago. My pockets aren't made of money, I don't farm 24/7, I don't really find appealing the thought of doing all of that pure and complete total grind.

And you've said yourself that Legendary Survivor is one of those "just play the game" titles. You have supported the point we have been making this entire time which is "we don't want to do 4 pure grind titles, we'd rather do one NON-grind title." Congratulations in supporting our side of the argument so thoroughly, we do appreciate it.

barazios · Jan 06, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

/signed

My reasons have already stated by others in previous posts. Therefore, I don't feel a need to repeat them.

Holly Herro · Jan 06, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Why wouldn't you sign?

Are you just that god damn stupid you wouldn't sign?

People like us just can't shrug it off and go "Meh"

It's an emotional thing too =[ it's like a RL pet if you play GW at least 1 hour a day. You've had it for nearly 3 years, way too much work put into it.

It's like you getting a house, and continuously buying extensions/appliances for it, then going "Oh, it's worth nothing... I'll go get it demolished"

dranne · Jan 06, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

But characters who go for Legendary Survivor are not completely empty from the start. Some get runs to max armor spots, others get loads of tomes and put overpowered late-campaign skills at low cost, still others show up in a high-level area by run with scrolls and get a powerlevel up to 20. Nobody has an "untainted" character going for Legendary Survivor, because in a title known for "crap, lag" and "stupid noob" moments, you want the odds tilted in your favor as much as possible. In many earlier said, earlier demonstrated, earlier apparently ignored posts, getting a character from Level 1 to 20 is generally easier than 20 to 100, and by extension x level to 100+x level if the title is made available to people who missed it first shot.

said, demonstrated and ignored posts are common in forums. nature of the things i guess. nothing to get upset about.

so here is what i said:

because you are changing what the title does: reaching from lvl 1-100 without dying. doesnt matter if what you suggest is harder or easier to do. resetting an old char and creating a new char is not the same thing. when you create a new character, it has nothing. your 3 year old char on the other hand has lots of skills/open areas/titles etc. i know having extra skills/completed missions can mean harder/easier xp gain. it is not about how hard it is or how easy it is. Its about, what it is.

Shadowmoon · Jan 06, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

New character are not clean slates as long as there are /bonus weapons and a account wide storage. It has been said many time before, you can easily get a lvl 2 character any skill in the game from tomes, max weapons (/bonus or weapons in storage) and max armor (con dock ferry). The only thing they lack is attribute points, but wait, once they hit lvl 10, they can go to gwen and get 241 of them (12/9/9/9), until they hit lvl 20.

So let compare difficulties
Get a new character, grind 40K Xp to get to lvl 10, go to gwen and become a instant lvl 20 in stats, go to gunnars (tons of free/tips runners), then farm the mess out of dwarf boxing with .1% chance of dying

or with a new surivor title
Farm the mess out of dwarf boxing

Only real difference is farming the 40K xp to get to lvl 20, and is noob island really that hard not to die before you hit lvl 10.

Loviatar · Jan 06, 2008, 04:50 PM // 16:50

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly Herro

Why wouldn't you sign?

Are you just that god damn stupid you wouldn't sign?

no holly my dear we are smart enough to read what the title is and how after careful review by the devs was put in.

instead of this is the way i want it to be here is the way it actually is.

since they will not redo the account database (jeff strain/ mike o brion) to allow account changes like /age /deaths/etc you will not get your wish

Quote:

Survivor title track
Tier Title Experience gained without dying (see below )Average time (sample size) Range
1 Survivor 140,600 10 hours (N=4) 8.5-11.5
2 Indomitable Survivor 587,500 50 hours (N=3) 46-52
3 Legendary Survivor 1,337,500 33 hours with farming (N=7) 10-55
95 hours without farming (N=8) 52-157

Quote:

Acquisition
Your character must not die if you wish to progress in this title track. A single death will halt its progress for that character permanently and irrevocably. Type "/deaths" in the in-game chat to run the command that checks the number of deaths your current character has suffered. If the command reports anything other than 0 deaths, this title track is no longer active.

face facts. they wont alter the database programming for an extremely tiny amount of vocal whiners

RotteN · Jan 06, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

everyone that still thinks survivor is about "surviving" while playing the game : get your head out of your ass and wipe the shit out of your eyes : it is not.

There are countless easy grind ways to achieve the title.

The scrimmage exploit (luckily fixed ages ago) enabled you to achieve LS in some nights of AFKing in a scrimmage match.

The bombing of the suicide foes in Urgoz warren (also fixed for as far as i know) made LS with 0% chance of death possible in mere hours.

The HFFF enables you to tag along with other people, get tons of XP, cash, and kurzick faction, and all that while doing NOTHING at all.

The Jade Knights farming is another very safe way to get LS after ~20ish hours of gameplay, and all you have to do is survive the "noob island"

now let me take a look at my main : i started using her as PvP character in december 2005 after working very hard to get a large collection of decent equipment, far beyond what was possible through PvP character creation back then. And yes, i died in those GvG's, well before i actually saw that would have any impact whatsoever on my PvE "experience".

whining "the title wasn't ment for you, now stfu" doesn't realy fly either. Who are you anyway to tell everyone "what a title was ment for" ? did you design it ? i guess not, so your oppinion is just another oppinion. Therefor, i suggest you either go ask the creator of the title what he realy ment, or find an other argument to back up your own oppinion.

honestly, i still have to see the first guy that can give a decent answer on the very easy question regarding this proposal : why not ?